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Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2012.06.25 11:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Dave stark wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:So yeah macroed but he was at the keyboard. Is that good or bad lol depends, how painful is RSI? Im betting you play more than I do; you tell me doesn't mean he whacks off more than you :P Also likely; Im a vampire. No sex drive look it up. Malkavian
OMG they are here. Beware. Next winter Batman is coming to EVE.
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Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:
OMG they are here. Beware. Next winter Batman is coming to EVE.
Is that the comic version, if so which one? The camp version or the early movie one or the late movie one?
It's a new version. Space Batman, made specially for CQ and WiS features. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vicata Heth wrote:Ris Dnalor wrote:I say the goons did what anyone would do with the new LP store.
They figured out the best way to make isk with the programmed mechanics.
They did it really really well.
If they thing had been coded and tested properly, then they wouldn't have been able to do what they did to such an extent.
But it wasn't
That's noones' fault but CCP.
Correcting the problem is fine, but punishing those who showed entrepreneurial spirit would be a far worse blow than any hit the economy has taken by GoonSwarms actions.
The economy will recover itself in time.
But the sandbox will take far longer to recover if CCP acts too harshly in their response.
I say I don't care what you think. You can pull definitions out of your ass all you want and argue over whether it's truly exploiting or whether they just took advantage of game mechanics. The fact is, they weren't supposed to be able to obtain trillions of ISK in such a short period of time via the FW system. They took the ****. If they truly wanted to help the community/CCP as they claim, then why didn't they do it with alts, or keep records of what was used and obtained in the process, and forward those records to CCP to simplify the process of reversing any damage, and ensure they didn't lose anything as a result? Because they wanted to take the ****. This is where CCP used common sense and intervened. I don't necessarily think they should lose items as a result, but the people involved should have had the brains to know CCP wouldn't approve of what they were doing, and take precautionary measures to ensure they didn't take any losses from it. Could you make another thread for goons to cry in please?
That's stupid, we're players. We pay to play, what you're saying is CCP's job.
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Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 12:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
I didn't wanted to get involved is this thread but can't avoid replying a stupid statement. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 12:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Alexandra Delarge wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Maybe they did and decided other things needed fixing first. Well, they (CCP) definitely knew it could be abused and released it anyway. They (CCP) definitely did know about it and chose to ignore what players told them. Why would they do that instead of fixing it before release? Like I said in the rest of that. Maybe they wanted to get it out rather than waiting for ever to test every possible bug. And maybe they believed that EvE did not contain anyone stupid enough to then try and exploit a known bug especially as the rules clearly state doing so result in permanent bans. Every thing in life contains bugs that result in stupid things occurring if they are abused that is why we have laws and rules. Otherwise anarchy would rule supreme, it doesn't in most parts of the world and morons who deliberately break rules and then yell about it to the media get punished.
Anarchy doesn't rule. Anarchy is anti-ruling. Abstracting other stupid content from post. I don't want to waste my time. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 13:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
How many of you started reading the forums after being ganked at Jita Burn? A lot of senseless hatred in this thread. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:They rubbed CCP's face in it, pure and simple. Are you trying to say that the reaction is a revenge act? No just they managed to make CCP look bad and break a rule at the same time. Enlighten me. Wich rule did they broke? I dont want to read a 150 page post looking for it. I read the EULA though. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 13:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Just to make things clear. I'm just the average curious guy. I have no simpaty for the Goons. Although, as an EVE player, I have a lot of interest in how CCP handles different game actions. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 13:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
'multiple' is not even close to be an acceptable answer. Begone, troll. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 14:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:The one I keep hearing is http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp, point 23, but by that definition all the players who did the above (and more) should also be banned or negwalleted or have their assets gained during that heist (and then some) seized, yet nothing happened at all to them. The only thing which happened was that the usage pattern was deemed an exploit (at which point you used it at your own peril), the game mechanic was changed, and everything just kept on trucking.
That rule doesn't apply since it wasn't a bug Goons exploited. They just figured out the game formula for calculating LP payout and abused it. That's the same thing players had to do when CCP released thermodynamics. The difference is the mechanic for LP payout was a really poor one wich wasn't tested properly before release to prevent this type of abuse... AND I believe it was not expected from CCP for it to be of any player focus. I do agree that Goons should't keep the profit from it, since keeping trillions from a design flaw is bit of game breaking. Now being punished for it isn't right. They probably deserve some punishment in-game for other actions but not from CCP. What thid they get from it? Account ban doesn't sound right at all. |
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Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.06.25 14:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Lord Ryan wrote:Many of us are letting goon hate cloud are judgement.
When a child is violated are you not appalled?
Yet when that child is a goon you cheer? Wow, you've got a well-constructed strawman here, in which you compare Goons to children and the punishment they received to sexual assault.
Wow, a debate specialist here. You built the strawmen, brother. The poster you quoted didn't made a comparation. He made a metaphor.
EDIT: nvm, I'm not a debate specialist either. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 14:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:What thid they get from it? Account ban doesn't sound right at all. From what I've gathered, all the assets made from this heist seized/removed from the account and the removal of quite a few datacores bought legitimately prior to this whole debacle, in addition to the ISK they spent. No account ban.
Then I'm outta here. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 14:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
They are not being punished. CCP just made a mistake when fixing the mess from the FW design flaw. Some datacores from Goonswarm assets that will probably be given back if they are telling the truth. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2012.06.25 15:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:Wow, a debate specialist here. You built the strawmen, brother. The poster you quoted didn't made a comparation. He made a metaphor. Not only did he make a comparison to child abuse right after invoking the goons by name, he made a direct connection to goons by saying "if that child is a goon". So yeah, he directly compared CCP punishing goons for exploiting to child abuse. I concede that may not actually be a strawman, but it's certainly a false and misleading comparison. Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera wrote:EDIT: nvm, I'm not a debate specialist either. Clearly.
I think he just meant Goons are innocent. I wouldn't say they are innocent as children, but they really didn't commited any crimes regarding EULA/TOS. Anyway, read my last post, it most probably isn't punishment hence none of this makes any sense.
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Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2012.06.25 15:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
I think he just meant Goons are innocent. I wouldn't say they are innocent as children, but they really didn't commited any crimes regarding EULA/TOS. Anyway, read my last post, it most probably isn't punishment hence none of this makes any sense.
unless you dont count Sreeg as CCP then CCP disagrees in the thread that got locked. He says several times that it was an exploit
Also; wheres that dev blog they were supposed to do on Monday?[/quote]
Need some reference. Afaik last comment locking the thread was a positive one.
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Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
23
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Posted - 2012.06.25 15:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:An exploit is not an illegal exploit untill it's discovered. Once CCP discovered a flaw in its mechanic. Then and only then can a statement be released on whether or not a said action. In this case a exploit is illegal. Remember. exploitation is inherit. Examples of this; scamming, diplomacy, espionage. Gaining whealth @ the expense of others. Which covers anything of valure is transfered from one entity to another (trading, barter or trade).
So, technically the Goons broke no rules. Mainly, because they weren't written. In the real world. Drugs like Ecstasy was legal for the longest time because it was new and not widely distributed. Few law makers had any idea of the drugs effects or side effects. Once they did. A move was made to make it illegal. There by "safe guarding the public good". Those who made money off Ecstasy before the laws where made. Were not arrested and there was no claw backs.
CCP shouldn't take away any funds made. They should return it all if they took any away and move on. Only players acting in the save fashion after the rules are made are subject to claw backs and punishments.
It was not an exploit. They abused a weak mechanic design. The profit they made was gamebreaking so I think CCP is right in removing the assets gained from the abuse. Now if they removed more than that I don't know but I wouldn't consider it a punishment due the situation. It's a lot of mess to fix so it's an understandable mistake. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 17:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Elysium Foxx wrote:Just because CCP had not officially stated that the vulnerability was an exploit, it does not mean it wasn't an exploit.
If I discovered a new way to hack into your personal computer that nobody else knew about, therefore it was not documented, and I proceeded to hack into your computer using this vulnerability - would that be OK with you? Since nobody has said that i can't do it - your firewalls, security measures and operating system are working as intended. SO you should be fine with me poking my nose around in your PC? - no, it is exploiting a vulnerability to do something illegal, whether its is documented or not.
Your arguments hold no weight. It was abuse of a vulnerability in the game mechanics, which IS by definition called an exploit. The OP of the 4x4 thread stated it was an exploit himself. CCP's own rules state that anybody knowingly abusing an exploit can be punished.
So, previous exploits like the PI bug, PA, and Insurance payouts, and all these others you keep mentioning obviously were not punished hard enough, since people still think they can get away with abusing exploits - to the point where they gloat about it on the forums, rub the game designers face in it, and make a mockery of the game itself and those who play it.
Its time CCP HTFU and make an example of these arrogant cheaters with extreme punishment that clearly says - "if you break the rules, you gonna pay for it". This might actually deter future attacks on the game, instead of the lame slap on the wrist, oh you naughty pod pilot stuff we have seen in the past. The guys who did this are not idiots, they know what they did was wrong.
This will in no way "break the sandbox". Even the sandbox needs rules to maintain the integrity of sandbox style play.
Initially i was of the opinion that just taking the profits away would be enough of a punishment - i now believe bans are in order for those involved.
CCP - you need to send a clear message to overt future abuse of your product, otherwise people will continue to ruin your game.
Exploiting a bug is illegal. There was no bug. It was a legal exploitation of weak game mechanics design. Now tell the truth, will ya. You just want to whip someone you meanie.
I believe the Goons who pulled this noticed how broken and how bad this was to the game so they posted about it. Since they did it for the good of the game I don't think they will mind having the assets gained from this exploit confiscated as it's evidently gamebreaking.
Now they are stating that CCP removed more datacores than they got from exploiting. They call it punishment, but I think that's because of some guilty complex because of all the damage they do. I believe it was just a mistake from CCP but the truth is I don't have access to Goons assets to evaluate what really happened and how bad it is. Few of us do. |
Opodiphthera Eucalypti Lepdoptera
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2012.06.25 19:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
@Antisocial Malkavian
Now paste the comments where the word "bug" comes before "exploit" and that's the ones where CCP says Goons broke the rules. And yeah, they have the right to "punish". According to the EULA they can ban any account for any reason or no reason at all, but I dont believe those CCP'ers are such cowboys.
Sorry I cound't open the youtube link, I'm behind a firewall here. Will open it later. |
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